J�rgen B�hm <jboehm@gmx.net> wrote:
+---------------
| Under the working title "LispmFPGA" I recently completed a first
| milestone on the way to an autonomous, "bare metal" Lisp on a CPU
| specifically designed to execute compiled Lisp code.
+---------------
Neat! Looks like a fun project!
+---------------
| All this is implemented with Verilog HDL on a Xilinx Spartan 3 FPGA.
+---------------
Just curious... Why did you pick the Spartan 3 over other Xilinx FPGAs?
Was it mainly the availability/price of the Starter Kit?
If I were to do something like this myself, I'd probably not bother
with designing a CPU per se but just use some flavor of the Xilinx
Virtex II line which has an on-chip PPC processor (1-4, actually,
depending on model/cost), and then just code a Lisp VM in tight
PPC assembler [but compiled from sexpr-based DSL code, of course!].
+---------------
| The FPGA board as used now provides in addition to the above features
| 1MB=256Kx32bit SRAM.
+---------------
In <http://www.aviduratas.de/lisp/lispmfpga/projectlog.html> you note
that this is an "ISSI" SRAM, but I don't seem to see it in the picture
of the Starter Kit. Is it on the other side of the board?
+---------------
| - a lisp programming toy
|
| Additionally, as a system like the above (even with more RAM) can be
| realized for about 100$, it might become a toy for Lisp enthusiasts and
| a learning tool for young people who want to own and program a computer
| they can understand and control completely, as was the PET 2001 or C64
| in former times.
+---------------
Again, I might be tempted to look at other platforms that already have
a CPU included, and concentrate my efforts on a tight Lisp VM and/or
integration between the Lisp code and the "custom hardware" that the
FPGA gives you. That is, an ARM or PPC plus an FPGA, or any of a number
of 8- or 16-bit CPUs with built-in hardcoded USB interfaces, e.g., PIC
or Atmel, etc. These pages list a number of such for USB 1.1 and USB 2.0:
http://www.beyondlogic.org/usb/usbhard.htm
http://www.beyondlogic.org/usb/usbhard2.htm
Oh, cute! Here's one [found via the above pages] that has your
Xilinx Spartan 3 FPGA on it, along with a Cypress CY68013A FX2LP
USB microcontroller, 64 MiB SDRAM, 1 MiB SRAM (512 KiW x 18),
8 MiB flash, and other goodies:
http://www.opalkelly.com/products/xem3050/
Oops, price is a bit steep: $750/q1. Oh, well, they also have a smaller
[only 31 MiB SDRAM, no SRAM or flash], cheaper one ["only"(?) $350/q1]:
http://www.opalkelly.com/products/xem3010/
Or if one prefers Ethernet, something like the PIC18F97J60 family,
which has embedded Ethernet and enough on-chip RAM to run the core
of a Lisp VM (with the user code being in external SRAM, of course).
There are lots of interesting little Ethernet -- and some WiFi --
development boards at reasonable prices here:
http://www.beyondlogic.org/etherip/ip.htm
Or both, with Atmel's ARM-based AT91RM9200, which has both USB
and 10/100 Ethernet. [Hmmm... Pricing is only $12/q50k [$25/q1?],
but the development board is $5000. Ouch!]
Wow! I didn't realize the array of choices of development boards and
interfaces was so wide. This is going to take some more study... ;-} ;-}
+---------------
| - a microcontroller programmable in Lisp(????)
|
| This would make a complete overhaul of the CPU necessary,
| to get a more compact opcode structure. ...
+---------------
Yeah, for that you might want to look at one of the versions of the
Xilinx Virtex II [mentioned above] which already have embedded CPUs.
But one of your indirect points is still quite correct: It's gotten
quite difficult for the average beginning experimenter to put together
"computers" unless you use some kind of pre-built development board.
(*sigh*)
Anyway, good luck with it...
-Rob
-----
Rob Warnock <rpw3@rpw3.org>
627 26th Avenue <URL:http://rpw3.org/>
San Mateo, CA 94403 (650)572-2607